Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

[elboriyorker]

I wanted to start this topic because,what i found is alot of hypocrisy among members on certain forum and we seem to be the bad one's

Ok lets used the word "warez" = refers primarily to copyrighted works traded in violation of copyright law. The term generally refers to illegal releases by organized groups

The only group we have is TEAM HTC and that group is mainly into mobile mods, skins and so on.When a rom developer or rom kitchen cooker or what ever terms is used.Reverse engineer a *MS* core file of a rom that belongs to a mobile device what would that be ? Isn't that a copyrighted work that belongs to *MS* And these rom chef is re-engineering to there specs?

And these site that offers the core files so you can ,make your own rom.Wouldn't that be as a organize groups? as define of the word warez..

am i mis-understanding this or this is logic. Can someone educated explain to me.

[D/\SH]

Re: Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

i feel the same way as you on the topic pb... cooking roms is warez, the music match full version offered on a device and ported over to another is warez... every single ppc forum has some sort of warez on their site but choose to give it a different name so they still look like they arent doing anything wrong.... just my outlook.... it all seems the same to me.

[elboriyorker]

Re: Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

i feel the same way as you on the topic pb... cooking roms is warez, the music match full version offered on a device and ported over to another is warez... every single ppc forum has some sort of warez on their site but choose to give it a different name so they still look like they arent doing anything wrong.... just my outlook.... it all seems the same to me.

thats what i thought, then every site on the net that do ppc is guilty.

[GokuSS3]

Re Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

Then all of these other sites should be taking just as much heat as we are correct ?

[D/\SH]

Re: Re Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

Then all of these other sites should be taking just as much heat as we are correct ?

yes, thats the way we look at it at least.

[elboriyorker]

Re: Re Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

Then all of these other sites should be taking just as much heat as we are correct ?

not so much just taking the heat.But being a hypocrite talking about another site and you yourself is in the game one way or another. (not referring to you) but other site owners.

[xabber]

Re: Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

It is unfair that we are getting the heat for some BS when there is way more people dedicated to those stuff ... .. and we are just coming up with skins and other little tweaks to benifit the end user (us)

[topostitch]

Re: Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

i don't know what sites are throwing dirt on us, but I think someone should open up a thread in those sites and lay down puertoblack's opinion on the topic(not mentioning his name of course) and make it a "Am i right or wrong on this, what do you think?" type of thread so that everyone on these sites see PB's logic and also expose those who think they arent' doing any wrong.

[midlandthug04]

Re: Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

of course cooking roms would be considered Warez because its not just a couple of skins or tweaks on most of the roms they are an UNOFFICIAL upgrades to our devices but im sure microsoft is aware of it but don't mind and for the rest of the forums that mind what we do.. WHY do they care so much about what we do in our forum? why not mind there own business?

[521]

Re Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

The following is my simple opinion:


Simply put, IMHO, it's jealousy, greed, and the nature of competition. Every site/person/company wants to be the see-all, know-all authority on whatever they are doing, and takes offense when someone else questions their supremacy. It's just human nature to want to be "above the rest" or "number one".

And yes, PB is exactly spot on - any person who is taking the work of another person/company, and is modding it, then claiming it as their own is technically a "hacker" producing a type of "warez". Even in this there are still those who have a sense of esteem - those would be the ones who actually give credit to the original author/owner where their "warez" evolved from.

Personally, I never had an issue myself with posting up another person's work, but I always give credit/thanks to the original owner if I do. Often on my other site, I am posting up schematics and mods and stuff that came from the internet, and when I do, I always try to post a referring link back to the creator/manufacturer/owner's site in return for posting their product, whatever it may be. I do not claim it is mine unless I have actually created it myself.

As far as the copyright/patent itself, even they are expected to expire at some time unless renewed, then the product becomes public domain. Consider for instance books that are originally printed and copyrighted by one publisher, then they quit publishing them. A number of years later, someone else gets ahold of a copy and posts it up or releases it through a new publisher. It's public domain to do so, at least as long as they cite that the work was written by the original author, or cite that it is an adaptation of a book/story/etc by the original author.

Is there something wrong with doing this? Personally I would say no - as the end result is that POSSIBLY the new modded version may appeal to someone who would otherwise have no interest in the original product. Overall result, the work has now been exposed to more and more people, and where the original author's work may have died out, it kinda receives a rebirth (albeit slightly reformed), and allows it to live on in its new form for many more years to come.


I guess what i'm trying to say in a loooong drawn out way, is that I totally agree with PB on this one. As long as the person is giving some credit to the source, why should they really care that the release is warez or not?

I download warez all the time, and often end up purchasing the original product as a result of my experiences with the ware - be it good or bad.

In the end, it's a win-win situation all the way around for all involved parties.


So much for that... i'll be hushing up now and crawling back to my dark corner over there under the stairs.... LOL!

521.......................

[VenumX]

Re Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

i don't know what sites are throwing dirt on us, but I think someone should open up a thread in those sites and lay down puertoblack's opinion on the topic(not mentioning his name of course) and make it a "Am i right or wrong on this, what do you think?" type of thread so that everyone on these sites see PB's logic and also expose those who think they arent' doing any wrong.

i think this would cause more controversy than it is worth. there are so many arguments for either side of this opinion-based question. it would probably blow up in our faces and sometimes its not the right thing to do to throw salt in the wound... :P

of course cooking roms would be considered Warez because its not just a couple of skins or tweaks on most of the roms they are an UNOFFICIAL upgrades to our devices but im sure microsoft is aware of it but don't mind and for the rest of the forums that mind what we do.. WHY do they care so much about what we do in our forum? why not mind there own business?

Microsofts worst mistake would be shutting down sites like ours, ppcgeeks, xda-developers or shutting down the rom portion of their site. It's main user-base now uses custom roms and more and more people are becoming knowledgeable about these modifications. M$ is already like a fish outta water right now, if they shut down this portion of their customer base, that would just be taking away the rest of the water that is just barely enough to keep them alive in the first place...

[elboriyorker]

Re: Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

i don't know what sites are throwing dirt on us, but I think someone should open up a thread in those sites and lay down puertoblack's opinion on the topic(not mentioning his name of course) and make it a "Am i right or wrong on this, what do you think?" type of thread so that everyone on these sites see PB's logic and also expose those who think they arent' doing any wrong.

there's no issue that was brought to me..but i read few of the site comments that was referring to this type and was said " i won't visit any site that do warez" but they register here anyway...So i thought to start a topic on it and stop the hypocrisy. that's all

of course cooking roms would be considered Warez because its not just a couple of skins or tweaks on most of the roms they are an UNOFFICIAL upgrades to our devices but im sure microsoft is aware of it but don't mind and for the rest of the forums that mind what we do.. WHY do they care so much about what we do in our forum? why not mind there own business?

It's true that MS dont mind...because that's how they improve there software.But I'm sure they wont like it if you sell there programs...

The following is my simple opinion:


Simply put, IMHO, it's jealousy, greed, and the nature of competition. Every site/person/company wants to be the see-all, know-all authority on whatever they are doing, and takes offense when someone else questions their supremacy. It's just human nature to want to be "above the rest" or "number one".

And yes, PB is exactly spot on - any person who is taking the work of another person/company, and is modding it, then claiming it as their own is technically a "hacker" producing a type of "warez". Even in this there are still those who have a sense of esteem - those would be the ones who actually give credit to the original author/owner where their "warez" evolved from.

Personally, I never had an issue myself with posting up another person's work, but I always give credit/thanks to the original owner if I do. Often on my other site, I am posting up schematics and mods and stuff that came from the internet, and when I do, I always try to post a referring link back to the creator/manufacturer/owner's site in return for posting their product, whatever it may be. I do not claim it is mine unless I have actually created it myself.

As far as the copyright/patent itself, even they are expected to expire at some time unless renewed, then the product becomes public domain. Consider for instance books that are originally printed and copyrighted by one publisher, then they quit publishing them. A number of years later, someone else gets ahold of a copy and posts it up or releases it through a new publisher. It's public domain to do so, at least as long as they cite that the work was written by the original author, or cite that it is an adaptation of a book/story/etc by the original author.

Is there something wrong with doing this? Personally I would say no - as the end result is that POSSIBLY the new modded version may appeal to someone who would otherwise have no interest in the original product. Overall result, the work has now been exposed to more and more people, and where the original author's work may have died out, it kinda receives a rebirth (albeit slightly reformed), and allows it to live on in its new form for many more years to come.


I guess what i'm trying to say in a loooong drawn out way, is that I totally agree with PB on this one. As long as the person is giving some credit to the source, why should they really care that the release is warez or not?

I download warez all the time, and often end up purchasing the original product as a result of my experiences with the ware - be it good or bad.

In the end, it's a win-win situation all the way around for all involved parties.


So much for that... i'll be hushing up now and crawling back to my dark corner over there under the stairs.... LOL!

521.......................

well put together and exactly what i was trying to bring to the light..

i think this would cause more controversy than it is worth. there are so many arguments for either side of this opinion-based question. it would probably blow up in our faces and sometimes its not the right thing to do to throw salt in the wound... :P



Microsofts worst mistake would be shutting down sites like ours, ppcgeeks, xda-developers or shutting down the rom portion of their site. It's main user-base now uses custom roms and more and more people are becoming knowledgeable about these modifications. M$ is already like a fish outta water right now, if they shut down this portion of their customer base, that would just be taking away the rest of the water that is just barely enough to keep them alive in the first place...

no controversy venumx, just a simple topic to stop site profiling.Because we all love what we do..no one is better then anyone...That's what I'm trying to get at...

[bikeandestroyx]

Re Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

I agree roms are warez, we are manipulating microsoft's mobile OS and all the apps included in it. Most sites dont care about warez, they care about the consequences of hosting them. Since microsoft doesn't go after anyone who cooks or hosts roms, it seems to be safe, so sites like ppcgeeks are fine with it, while cracked software and games are forbidden. I am willing to bet most people on ppcgeeks use or have used cracked wares at one time or another.

[PHE-NOM]

Re: Re Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

man, all it is is hating on our site pb. you know when you are little no one cares what you do, but as soon as you start to grow, everybody wants to hate. but its all good, let them hate, thats what haters do anyways. unlike others sites who try to justify what they do, we actually dont hide around the bush, and this thread just proved it.

[gogorob]

Re: Reverse Engineering on a ROM Software

Actually SPJ, PPCgeeks etc.. is what basically keeps us junkies, people out there wanna buy the next windows phone just to see hoew far we can push them phones..they should be proud of what SPJ does..they know whats going on...its all about the benjamins